Differences

This shows you the differences between two versions of the page.

Link to this comparison view

Both sides previous revisionPrevious revision
Next revision		Previous revision
utsfl:classroom:seminars:pbp230h [2022/07/13 02:54] – Dobbs balleyneutsfl:classroom:seminars:pbp230h [2024/07/20 13:11] (current) – [Will the foster care system be "overrun"?] Turnaway Study data mmccann
Line 1: Line 1:
 ====== PBP230H: Objections to Anti-Abortion Legislation ====== ====== PBP230H: Objections to Anti-Abortion Legislation ======
 <note>This needs to be updated in light of Dobbs. It's no longer theoretical in an American context.</note> <note>This needs to be updated in light of Dobbs. It's no longer theoretical in an American context.</note>
 +FIXME denial of care for ectopic pregnancies, or for miscarriage treatment? (Does this belong here or under health of mother?) https://lozierinstitute.org/fact-check-state-pro-life-laws-explicitly-protect-lives-of-pregnant-women/ 
 +FIXME master-list from Secular Pro-Life on many of these questions https://secularprolife.org/index/#Effects_of_Abortion_Restrictions
 +
 +FIXME "women will be investigated for Miscarriages" (argument from investigation)
  
 ** "If abortion is illegalized, then..." ** ** "If abortion is illegalized, then..." **
Line 48: Line 52:
         - However, when a woman during her pregnancy chooses to place her newborn child with an adoptive family, it is a completely different process. Women arrange private adoptions through agencies which help them choose from multiple families to pick the best option for them and whether they want an open or closed adoption. Newborn children in these situations do not go into the foster care system, but are placed with the new family right away."         - However, when a woman during her pregnancy chooses to place her newborn child with an adoptive family, it is a completely different process. Women arrange private adoptions through agencies which help them choose from multiple families to pick the best option for them and whether they want an open or closed adoption. Newborn children in these situations do not go into the foster care system, but are placed with the new family right away."
       - (https://adoption.com/foster-vs-adopt "Perhaps the main difference between adoption and foster care is that foster care is temporary. Your agency or social worker has the goal of repairing the problems in your child’s home that led to their removal. When biological parents are able to prove that they can support their children financially, emotionally, and socially, then the child will be able to return to them.")       - (https://adoption.com/foster-vs-adopt "Perhaps the main difference between adoption and foster care is that foster care is temporary. Your agency or social worker has the goal of repairing the problems in your child’s home that led to their removal. When biological parents are able to prove that they can support their children financially, emotionally, and socially, then the child will be able to return to them.")
 +
 +FIXME (Maria) I have heard counter-examples of babies waiting to be adopted who were still temporarily put in foster care
  
   * example from //This Is Us//: newborn adoption of Randall was simple, relatively speaking, because his parents relinquished parental rights, versus difficulty in adopting Deja because she was in the foster care system and her mom's parental rights had not yet been relinquished. Deja couldn't be adopted until her mom decided    * example from //This Is Us//: newborn adoption of Randall was simple, relatively speaking, because his parents relinquished parental rights, versus difficulty in adopting Deja because she was in the foster care system and her mom's parental rights had not yet been relinquished. Deja couldn't be adopted until her mom decided 
   * 2a. Percentage of women who actually place children for adoption = very low   * 2a. Percentage of women who actually place children for adoption = very low
 +    * FIXME data from the Turnaway Study ➡️ re: women who sought an abortion but could not get one (I.e. were turned away), of those who gave birth, 91% declined adoption and raised the baby themselves. https://secularprolife.substack.com/p/what-kind-of-mothering-do-you-expect?fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAR2PEWx5OvnyaZLmtpK72jWvrzseM56VHAEbHiTvHyweWW-_hTlRQeL8HFY_aem_vIhi4wk7PQVpNoAZYOgYHg 
     * e.g. Laura Klassen from Choice42 said that she's had maybe 1 woman want to place her child for adoption     * e.g. Laura Klassen from Choice42 said that she's had maybe 1 woman want to place her child for adoption
     * http://www.canadaadopts.com/adopting-in-canada/adopting-canada-faqs/: FAQ's: "//Why are there so few newborns available?//     * http://www.canadaadopts.com/adopting-in-canada/adopting-canada-faqs/: FAQ's: "//Why are there so few newborns available?//
 Many reasons: While the pool of adoptive parents has steadily grown, partly because couples are starting their families later in life, the number of birth mothers has shrunk, partly because of the growing acceptance of single parenthood and our generous social programs." Many reasons: While the pool of adoptive parents has steadily grown, partly because couples are starting their families later in life, the number of birth mothers has shrunk, partly because of the growing acceptance of single parenthood and our generous social programs."
 +
 +
 +FIXME https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=812860016830120&id=17841406461011758&eav=AfafEv0pbqYWR06uF_wLEKyx9RQku3a2lg_CLPvZqhdBis4NmSUoXaLV6jydgLEOjHU&paipv=0&wtsid=rdr_0KBxDcLIDSHPWErjk&_rdr --> multiple points, including Turn away study: most women who were denied abortions ended up parenting their children, not placing them for adoption, and bonded emotionally well to their kids
  
 ===== Will crime rates increase? ===== ===== Will crime rates increase? =====
Line 73: Line 83:
       - This is a classic trot out the toddler case -- even //if// legalized abortion reduces crime, that isn't a justification for killing if pre-born children are human beings, otherwise it would also be a justification for killing toddlers.       - This is a classic trot out the toddler case -- even //if// legalized abortion reduces crime, that isn't a justification for killing if pre-born children are human beings, otherwise it would also be a justification for killing toddlers.
   - **Citation?** It might not even be true. Donohue/Levitt have been fending off substantively academic criticisms of their findings since 2001.((https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legalized_abortion_and_crime_effect#:~:text=Critics%20have%20argued%20that%20Donohue,Supreme%20Court%20case%20Roe%20v.))    - **Citation?** It might not even be true. Donohue/Levitt have been fending off substantively academic criticisms of their findings since 2001.((https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legalized_abortion_and_crime_effect#:~:text=Critics%20have%20argued%20that%20Donohue,Supreme%20Court%20case%20Roe%20v.)) 
-      - Ex. "[Christopher] Foote and [Christopher] Goetz also criticize Levitt and Donahue's use of arrest totals rather than arrests per capita, which takes population size into account. Using Census Bureau population estimates, Foote and Goetz repeated the analysis using arrest rates in place of simple arrest totals, and found that the effect of abortion disappeared entirely...Foote and Goetz also criticize Levitt and Donahue's use of arrest totals rather than arrests per capita, which takes population size into account. Using Census Bureau population estimates, Foote and Goetz repeated the analysis using arrest rates in place of simple arrest totals, and found that the effect of abortion disappeared entirely." ((https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legalized_abortion_and_crime_effect#:~:text=Critics%20have%20argued%20that%20Donohue,Supreme%20Court%20case%20Roe%20v and https://www.economist.com/finance-and-economics/2005/12/01/oops-onomics?story_id=5246700))+      - Ex. "[Christopher] Foote and [Christopher] Goetz also criticize Levitt and Donahue's use of arrest totals rather than arrests per capita, which takes population size into account. Using Census Bureau population estimates, Foote and Goetz repeated the analysis using arrest rates in place of simple arrest totals, and found that the effect of abortion disappeared entirely." ((https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legalized_abortion_and_crime_effect#:~:text=Critics%20have%20argued%20that%20Donohue,Supreme%20Court%20case%20Roe%20v and https://www.economist.com/finance-and-economics/2005/12/01/oops-onomics?story_id=5246700)) (Because if the overall population is bigger simply because fewer people are being killed by abortion, then you might have net more crimes, but not more crimes per capita.)
     - The data is messy and incomplete. There //might// be a correlation between legalized abortion and reductions in violent crime, but when controlling for other crime-associated factors, that effect seems lessened, or some argues even disappears entirely. Point is: it's not entirely clear to what extent, if any, legalized abortion actually reduces crime. It might. It might not. There is open debate happening on the question. But in any case, we shouldn't be trying to reduce the crime rates of adults by increasing the killing of babies.     - The data is messy and incomplete. There //might// be a correlation between legalized abortion and reductions in violent crime, but when controlling for other crime-associated factors, that effect seems lessened, or some argues even disappears entirely. Point is: it's not entirely clear to what extent, if any, legalized abortion actually reduces crime. It might. It might not. There is open debate happening on the question. But in any case, we shouldn't be trying to reduce the crime rates of adults by increasing the killing of babies.
 --------------------------------- ---------------------------------
Line 83: Line 93:
 Effects of anti-abortion legislation on lowering abortion rates -- need to review these:  Effects of anti-abortion legislation on lowering abortion rates -- need to review these: 
  
 +FIXME Texas, 10k more live births (you can hide an illegal abortion but not a birth) https://www.texastribune.org/2023/06/30/texas-abortion-johns-hopkins-study/
  
   * FIXME https://lozierinstitute.org/how-the-legal-status-of-abortion-impacts-abortion-rates/   * FIXME https://lozierinstitute.org/how-the-legal-status-of-abortion-impacts-abortion-rates/
Line 97: Line 108:
  
 FIXME article where Josh Brahm from ERI responds https://blog.equalrightsinstitute.com/joshs-abortion-dialogue-with-a-reader-from-tangle/  FIXME article where Josh Brahm from ERI responds https://blog.equalrightsinstitute.com/joshs-abortion-dialogue-with-a-reader-from-tangle/ 
 +
 +
 +FIXME "should post-abortive women be prosecuted?" Scott Klusendorf's response https://www.scottklusendorf.com/should-we-prosecute-a-mother-who-has-an-abortion/?fbclid=IwAR2nTShQFwhR9_4gAhoX3wk6ih9IvJHcHqxAcuafEIsZ7zytxQegsNL8tKU