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utsfl:classroom:seminars:pba330h [2021/03/11 18:28] – some adjustments in preparation for tonight balleyneutsfl:classroom:seminars:pba330h [2021/03/11 20:09] (current) – balleyne
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 <note>This is based heavily on Section 9.5 of Christopher Kaczor's //The Ethics of Abortion//</note> <note>This is based heavily on Section 9.5 of Christopher Kaczor's //The Ethics of Abortion//</note>
  
-Abortion advocates sometimes claim that "abortion is safer than childbirth." How can we respond?+Abortion advocates sometimes claim that "abortion is safer than childbirth" or "without legal abortion, women will die." How can we respond?
  
 The detailed answer is that advances in medicine and proper maternal healthcare are what make pregnancy safe, not abortion. This is a bit of a deep dive on the statistics and case studies so that we have the background to understand why abortion is not the answer to reducing maternal mortality. The detailed answer is that advances in medicine and proper maternal healthcare are what make pregnancy safe, not abortion. This is a bit of a deep dive on the statistics and case studies so that we have the background to understand why abortion is not the answer to reducing maternal mortality.
 +
 +FIXME this content is good, but it needs to be explained in a more accessible way, otherwise people get lost in the stats and don't get the bigger point. Some slides/visuals to illustrate the points? Or more of a concise summary? Perhaps changing the flow - this starts out deep in the weeds and slowly works towards a succinct conclusion, instead of maybe answering the question up front and then elaborating?
  
 ===== Illegal Abortions ===== ===== Illegal Abortions =====
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 It's medical care that makes the difference - not the legal status of abortion. It's medical care that makes the difference - not the legal status of abortion.
  
-FIXME dialogue example of comparing the US and Ireland before 2018. "Abortion was totally illegal in Ireland before 2018, yet Ireland had a //lower// MMR than the US where abortion was legal. If legal abortion is what reduces the MMR, why would a country like Ireland have fewer maternal deaths even when abortion is legal? The MMR depends on the quality of //healthcare// available, not the legal status of abortion."+Let's look at [[https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SH.STA.MMRT|the MMR data from 2017]]: 
 +  * Canada: 10 (2017) 
 +  * United States: 19 (2017) 
 +  * Ireland: 5 (2017) 
 +  * Poland: 2 (2017) 
 + 
 +FIXME dialogue example of comparing the US and Ireland before 2018. "Abortion was totally illegal in Ireland before 2018, yet Ireland had one of the lowest MMRs in the world, lower than the US where abortion was legal. Abortion is almost entirely illegal in Poland, and Poland has a lower MMR than the United States as well. If legal abortion is what reduces the MMR, why would a country like Ireland and Poland have fewer maternal deaths even when abortion is illegal? Lower than even Canada? The answer is that the MMR depends on the quality of //healthcare// available, not the legal status of abortion."
  
 But, let's pretend abortion was safer than childbirth. But, let's pretend abortion was safer than childbirth.
  
 > The argument about the relationship between women’s health and abortion is an important one, but it is only one aspect of a larger conversation. Let’s suppose that giving birth were more risky for a woman’s health than getting an abortion. Let’s suppose that legalized abortion did lead to lower overall rates of maternal mortality. Would it follow that abortion is morally permissible? Would it follow that abortion should be legalized? It seems clear that a few other questions must also be answered in order to come to a balanced and holistic judgment. These questions include, is the human being in utero someone who has intrinsic worth and equal basic dignity? Is it permissible to intentionally kill one human being (one’s own son or daughter) in order to lower the likelihood of adverse effects for oneself? It is permissible to use one person simply as a means, indeed to destroy this person’s life, in order to achieve some worthwhile end? It is also relevant to mention that abortion may be more or less risky for the woman involved but **it is always fatally risky for the fetus involved. Abortion may or may not leave one injured, but it always leaves one dead.** > The argument about the relationship between women’s health and abortion is an important one, but it is only one aspect of a larger conversation. Let’s suppose that giving birth were more risky for a woman’s health than getting an abortion. Let’s suppose that legalized abortion did lead to lower overall rates of maternal mortality. Would it follow that abortion is morally permissible? Would it follow that abortion should be legalized? It seems clear that a few other questions must also be answered in order to come to a balanced and holistic judgment. These questions include, is the human being in utero someone who has intrinsic worth and equal basic dignity? Is it permissible to intentionally kill one human being (one’s own son or daughter) in order to lower the likelihood of adverse effects for oneself? It is permissible to use one person simply as a means, indeed to destroy this person’s life, in order to achieve some worthwhile end? It is also relevant to mention that abortion may be more or less risky for the woman involved but **it is always fatally risky for the fetus involved. Abortion may or may not leave one injured, but it always leaves one dead.**
 +
 +The key to the response:
 +  * Compare Canada/US to Ireland/Poland - it can't be legal abortion that's necessary to save lives
 +  * //Bring it back to the central question//: _Every_ successful abortion kills a human being. If we add the abortion deaths of the children who are killed by the abortion, it's clear that abortion is not the safer option.
 +
 +Bonus, information on the debate about the Texas MMR:
 +  * https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BPzhk-rdv7M
 +  * https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1nHGH96YHkQ
 +    * https://lozierinstitute.org/new-study-maternal-mortality-in-texas-rose-earlier-than-previously-claimed/