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utsfl:classroom:seminars:pba301h [2017/07/24 10:39] – [EEG View] mmccannutsfl:classroom:seminars:pba301h [2021/03/18 20:59] (current) – some notes on the Fellows debate with YPY balleyne
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 This is bad news for abortion advocates. Many become anti-science or try to shift the question. This is bad news for abortion advocates. Many become anti-science or try to shift the question.
 +
 +===== Misapplying Terms =====
 +
 +  * FIXME Dr. Fellows debate with Maaike on March 18, 2021:
 +    * He was conflating the term "[[wp>Live Birth (human)|live birth]]" with "being alive"
 +    * "Live birth" doesn't mean you're not alive until you're born, it just means you were born alive
 +    * He's misapplying a term from OB/GYN to embryology
 +    * He contradicted himself by using terms like "fetal death" or "kill"
 +  * FIXME people confuse viability with vitality
  
 ===== Anti-Science Doubt ===== ===== Anti-Science Doubt =====
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 ===== Philosophical Question? ==== ===== Philosophical Question? ====
-Some dodge the scientific question and claim that "when human life begins" is a philosophical question, not a question of science. +What Gilbert is actually doing is using his credentials as a biologist while advancing a philosophical question. Of course there's no scientific consensus on the question of when "personhood" begins - because that's not a scientific question (whether or not a biological human being should have moral status, etc). But there's a consensus as to when a new individual organism, same species as the parents, comes into existing, and Gilbert's own //Developmental Biology// sums it up nice in the very title of the chapter: "Fertilization: Beginning a New Organism." And our philosophical position ought to at least take into account what we know from science, but the philosophy is a topic for another time.
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-That's only partially true. +
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-Science can tell us where a biological human being begins, where a new individual organism of the human species comes into existence. That part is a question for science. +
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-The question of when that biological human being -- organism of the human species -- has value or rights or personhood, that is certainly a philosophical question.+
  
-The philosophical deliberations, however, need to take into account our knowledge from biology about when a new individual of the human species comes into existence.+Dr. Stacy Trasancos summarizes Scott F Gilbert's sleight of hand well: 
 +{{ :utsfl:classroom:seminars:biology_scott-f-gilbert_dr-stacy-trasancos_fertilization.mp4 |}}