Differences

This shows you the differences between two versions of the page.

Link to this comparison view

Both sides previous revisionPrevious revision
Next revision		Previous revision
euthanasia:start [2022/04/17 19:40] – old revision restored (2022/03/03 13:24) 154.54.249.194euthanasia:start [2022/05/17 14:50] (current) – old revision restored (2022/04/17 19:39) 216.244.66.245
Line 1: Line 1:
 ====== Anti-Euthanasia Apologetics ====== ====== Anti-Euthanasia Apologetics ======
-FIXME https://mobile.nytimes.com/2016/12/22/upshot/how-social-isolation-is-killing-us.html?smid=fb-nytimes&smtyp=cur&referer= 
- 
-(See also [[:trtl:education:team:presentations:euthanasia:|Rough notes on TRTL presentation]]) 
  
 Opening questions (goal: set up tension between suicide prevention/assistance): Opening questions (goal: set up tension between suicide prevention/assistance):
Line 11: Line 8:
  
 There are three possible positions to take in response to the suicidal: There are three possible positions to take in response to the suicidal:
-  - Total Choice: Everyone deserves assistance +  - 100% Assistance: Everyone deserves assistance 
-  - Mixed Assistance/Prevention: Some people deserve assistance, others prevention (most popular) +  - Assistance/Prevention: Some people deserve assistance, others prevention (most popular) 
-  - Total Prevention (Pro-Life): Everyone deserves prevention (the pro-life position)+  - 100% Prevention: Everyone deserves prevention (the pro-life position)
  
 The goal of this apologetic is: The goal of this apologetic is:
-  * to move people from Mixed to Pro-Life by showing that the Mixed position is untenable/ablist/discriminatory +  * to move people from Position 1 to Position 2 by reaching for intuitions that there are at least some situations where suicide should be prevented 
-  * to move people from Total Choice to Mixed by reaching for intuitions that there are at least some situations where suicide should be prevented+  * to move people from Position 2 to Position 3 by showing that Position 2 is untenable/ablist/discriminatory
  
-===== Mixed Position: Some people deserve assistance, others prevention =====+ 
 +===== Position 2: Some people deserve assistance, others prevention =====
  
 **Key question:** Who gets suicide prevention and who gets assistance? **Key question:** Who gets suicide prevention and who gets assistance?
  
-<note>Some people might abandon Position 2 for Position 1, or jump back and forth. This is a positive sign, a step forward, even if it seems like they're jumping further from the pro-life position. It shows they recognize that Position 2 is problematic and they're forced to choose between Position 1 and 3.</note> 
- 
-==== False Freedom ==== 
 If it's really about autonomy/freedom/choice/control, why should we //ever// prevent someone from committing suicide? If it's really about autonomy/freedom/choice/control, why should we //ever// prevent someone from committing suicide?
   * Is it really about autonomy? Or do we only say that when we agree with someone's suicidal thoughts, when we agree with them that they might actually be better off dead?   * Is it really about autonomy? Or do we only say that when we agree with someone's suicidal thoughts, when we agree with them that they might actually be better off dead?
Line 31: Line 26:
     * It's not really about autonomy them, or else we'd never intervene to prevent suicide. Isn't it about a judgment call that some people are better off dead?     * It's not really about autonomy them, or else we'd never intervene to prevent suicide. Isn't it about a judgment call that some people are better off dead?
  
-FIXME Trot out the Teenager +<note>Some people might abandon Position 2 for Position 1, or jump back and forth. This is a positive sign, a step forward, even if it seems like they're jumping further from the pro-life position. It shows they recognize that Position 2 is problematic and they're forced to choose between Position 1 and 3.</note>
- +
-==== QUIT ==== +
-Most of the reasons people give why some people should be eligible for suicide assistance break down into these four reasons why we'd "quit" on the suicidal: +
-  * **Q**uality of Life +
-  * **U**nbearable Suffering +
-  * **I**ncurable Illness/Condition +
-  * **T**erminal Prognosis +
- +
-=== Terminal Prognosis === +
-  - Test the Limit: How close to death do you need to be? +
-  - Transient Will to Live: Dr. Chochinov studies +
-  - Unreliable Prognosis: John Norton story +
-  - Assess for Ablism: Is it really terminal illness, or are they just appealing to the hard case to justify assisted suicide for people who aren't dying? Test with their response to a serious, permanent but non-fatal disability +
- +
-=== Incurable Condition === +
-  - Test the Limit: How long before we abandon ship and do a 180 and give into suicidal despair? +
-  - Compare with other Incurable Conditions: death of a spouse/child, loss of limb, etc. If the person accepts other solutions to move forward in life despite these conditions being "uncurable," then why not for other situations? Isn't there always a way to move forward with non-fatal conditions? +
-  - Possibility of future treatments +
-  - Assess for Ablism: What about the wheelchair? Set up situations with an without a wheelchair, e.g. with and without quadriplegia, then down syndrome. Are we treating people with disabilities differently? Would we fail to prevent their suicides in the same scenario? +
- +
-=== Unbearable Suffering === +
-FIXME +
-=== Quality of Life === +
-FIXME+
  
 ==== Social Science: Being suicidal is always a symptom of some other unmet need ==== ==== Social Science: Being suicidal is always a symptom of some other unmet need ====
  
-  - Among the terminally ill, we can see that a will to live changes frequently +FIXME transient will to live
-    * According to the studies undertaken by professor Chochinov of Winnipeg, 80% of people who ask for death have bad pain relief and 60% are gravely depressed (Harvey M. Chochinov (dir.), Handbook of Psychiatry in Palliative Medicine, Oxford University Press, 2012).((http://alexschadenberg.blogspot.ca/2013/09/brief-presented-by-physicians-alliance.html)) +
-    * [[http://www.economist.com/node/346303|The Economist]] +
-      * "The current medical model of suicide, which has spawned such a great increase in suicide-prevention and intervention efforts, denies absolutely that suicide, except for the terminally ill, can ever be a rational choice, and claims that society has an obligation to stop someone with an unbalanced mind from destroying themselves just as it would try to stop them from doing other harmful acts. The fact that suicide is utterly irrevocable just adds to the obligation to intervene." +
-      * "There is a great deal of evidence for this view. <del>Most people who fail at suicide, or who are rescued after an attempt, do not try to kill themselves again.</del>((Diane said there are other studies that take past suicide attempts as predictors for future attempts, increasing effectiveness too, so this may not be true or may at least be contested.)) Anti-depressant medication and counselling have helped many people banish suicidal thoughts. And yet the terminally ill also often have great difficulty in coming to a rational decision about whether they want to live or die. A study of 168 terminal-cancer sufferers published last month in the Lancet by researchers at the University of Manitoba in Canada found that their desire to go on living fluctuated greatly, depending largely on their experience of distressing symptoms. Given this, should not society reinforce the taboo against suicide and resist even a relaxation of laws against euthanasia?" +
-    * FIXME The Lancet, Harvey Max Chochinov, Douglas Tataryn, Jennifer J Clinch, Deborah Dudgeon, September 1999, Volume 354 (Issue 9181), p.816-819 +
-    * [[http://www.nytimes.com/1999/09/04/us/terminal-cancer-patients-will-to-live-is-found-to-fluctuate.html|NYTimes]] +
-       * "study by Canadian researchers suggests that in the weeks before death, cancer patients show substantial fluctuations in their will to live. And the factors that contribute to a loss of that will shift over time, the researchers found, and often involve suffering that can be alleviated through treatment." +
-       * "Dr. Chochinov and his colleagues studied 168 cancer patients admitted to the hospital for end-of-life care. The patients were screened to make sure that they had the mental competence and the physical strength to participate in the study, which involved filling out a questionnaire twice a day -- a process that Dr. Chochinov said took about a minute -- and continued until shortly before death. The participants were asked to rate themselves on 100-point scales measuring pain, nausea, appetite, activity, drowsiness, sense of well-being, depression, anxiety and shortness of breath. They also rated the strength of their will to live." +
-       * "Most of the patients in the study were elderly, although the youngest was 31 (and the oldest 89). On average, the participants survived for 18 days after entering the hospital. One woman, however, survived for more than 150 days." +
-       * **"Over a 12-hour period, Dr. Chochinov said, the patients' will to live could fluctuate by 30 percent or more. Over a 30-day period, the shifts were even larger, on average up to 60 percent or 70 percent."** "These large fluctuations suggest that will to live is highly unstable," the researchers wrote. +
-       * :!: "In the period just after a patient entered the hospital, a decrease in the will to live was most strongly associated with anxiety, perhaps as a result of the psychological shift required in moving from out-of-hospital care, Dr. Chochinov said. One to two weeks afterward, the researchers found, depression was the symptom most strongly associated with decreased will to live." +
-       * "But in the final days of life, physical distress -- specifically pain and shortness of breath -- repressed patients' will to live more strongly than psychological suffering." +
-  - We need to look at the real reasons that people take assisted suicide +
-    * people think that pain is the #1 reason, but it's not in Oregon((http://time.com/4068423/physician-assisted-suicide/)), for example, [[https://public.health.oregon.gov/ProviderPartnerResources/EvaluationResearch/DeathwithDignityAct/Documents/year18.pdf|1998-2014 data, published 2015]]: +
-      * 92% losing autonomy +
-      * 89% less able to engage in activities making life enjoyable +
-      * 79% loss of dignity +
-      * 50% losing control of bodily functions +
-      * 40% burden on family, friends/caregivers +
-      * 25% inadequate pain control or concern about it +
-      * 3% financial implications about treatment +
-    * :!: physical pain (or fear of) is not the main concern +
-    *  **"These are disability issues"**((http://notdeadyet.org/assisted-suicide-talking-points)) +
-      * FIXME graphic of person in wheelchair with ramp to assisted suicide and stairs to suicide prevention program +
  
-FIXME +FIXME Oregon data and disability issues
-  * chronic depression? +
-  * suffering is subjective: what about extreme anxiety?+
  
 ==== QUIT Ablism ==== ==== QUIT Ablism ====
Line 125: Line 69:
  
 **Key question:** Is there //ever// a case where we should prevent suicide? (If yes, back to Position 2) **Key question:** Is there //ever// a case where we should prevent suicide? (If yes, back to Position 2)
- 
-FIXME Michelle: If someone is in great suffering, are they in the condition/right mind to make a permanent decision about suicide? 
  
   * Is suicide //ever// a tragedy?   * Is suicide //ever// a tragedy?
Line 136: Line 78:
     * How do you determine whether or not someone has a sound mind or good reasons? The only way you could see them as being rational is if you're already made a judgment about whether or not they're actually better off dead (back to Position 2)     * How do you determine whether or not someone has a sound mind or good reasons? The only way you could see them as being rational is if you're already made a judgment about whether or not they're actually better off dead (back to Position 2)
   * What is your responsibility to your fellow human beings?   * What is your responsibility to your fellow human beings?
-    * https://www.lifesitenews.com/blogs/i-might-want-to-be-euthanized-too-if-my-children-did-this-to-me 
-    * Would it not truly be suffering to realize that those very closest to you, those you loved the very most, would like you to kill yourself, or support your suicide? 
-    * Suicidal people often reach out to others, often let someone know about their plans. By telling people they are contemplating suicide, they are letting out one last cry for help—I’m going to kill myself…are you going to stop me? Is it not possible that many elderly parents may be suggesting assisted suicide in the desperate hope that their children will reject such a situation out of hand? That their children will tell them how much they are loved, will promise to come see them, will offer to find them the care that they need? What if the suggestions of some elderly or sick people that suicide is the best option is not so much a suggestion as it is a question: How much do you love me? 
-    * Which leads to more questions: Love is not proven until it is tested. As those we love suffer illness and the many afflictions of old age, what is our responsibility towards them? A loved one with Alzheimer’s, for example. It is easy to love someone when they can love us back. But does our responsibility suddenly vanish when that person is not capable of loving us in the same way? Does mental illness, old age, or disease relieve us of our responsibility towards them, eliminate our duty to care for them, or change the fact that we love them? Too often the idea of euthanasia is not about releasing the suffering one from pain. It is about releasing those around him from their responsibility. 
     * Do we have a responsibility to decrease the will to die?     * Do we have a responsibility to decrease the will to die?
     * Is mercy killing about releasing the person who is suffering from suffering, or releasing the people around them from responsibility?     * Is mercy killing about releasing the person who is suffering from suffering, or releasing the people around them from responsibility?
     * Peter Singer: love > his philosophy     * Peter Singer: love > his philosophy
  
-===== Position 3: Pro-Life Alternatives ===== 
- 
-  * The pro-life position is not vitalism, getting every last beat out of that heart 
-    * FIXME extraordinary vs ordinary care, refusal of treatment 
-  * The pro-life position isn't just saying no to suicide, but it's offering positive forms of care instead 
-    * FIXME Dignity Therapy 
- 
- 
-FIXME Why would we put animals out of their misery, but deny that to human beings? 
-  * Euthanizing non-human animals is actually a sign that we respect them //less//, not //more// than human beings 
-    * We don't give the family dog chemo. We don't spend as much money or go as far to care for our pets as we do our relatives 
-    * Maybe this is because humans are different from non-human animals and warrant more care and respect; or maybe we're wrong about this and we should care for our other animals more 
-    * But it's //not// true that euthanizing pets is more compassionate, it's actually a sign that we value their lives less (whether rightly or wrongly) 
- 
-FIXME BIID